Is There Continuity Between Two Posts on a Ignition Coil Rotax

25-03-21,07:00

I'm trying to fix my mad old friend Pete's 2003 CCM Rotax supermoto.

The bike is effectively totally dead.
Battery at full voltage.
Full voltage to connector for ignition switch.
Ignition switch tests correctly (4 wire switch...one pair made when switched off to ground the ignition, other pair makes when switched on to carry battery supply).
The wiring is an absolute disgrace...from the factory...with all kinds of randomly changing colours on the same circuits, multiple splicing midway, and would make an Italian loom look tidy.
Whilst checking things out, I found a black wire broken from somewhere, seemingly from the ignition switch loom connector block.
However, the only other black wire on this block is a common negative, tested to earth and the battery negative post, whereas this loose one is a switched positive.
I've tried following the loom but it's done my head in.
Pete's manual is just an engine manual and only shows ignition/charging circuit.

Does anyone have an actual full wiring diagram for these bikes, or some info on the ignition switch and front loom connections?
I can't find anything online, other than a later six wire switch, and it doesn't even match his loom colours.

25-03-21,19:34

From memory the wiring is almost identical to the 644 engined bike. Here is a diagram for that.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jil77ygks...nav_tracking=1

I had a similar problem on my 644 and eventually traced it to the black live feed for the CDI unit which had cracked due to age.

Agree that the factory wiring is a disgrace though.

If stuck put a question up on CCM MAD Facebook site where there are lots of friendly knowledgeable people.

26-03-21,08:24

Thanks very much for that.

I'll print it off and take it to Pete's, to see how much tallies.
At least I'll be able to relate to what's going on now.

If it was my bike, I'd cut the lot out and rewire it myself.

26-03-21,08:53

I haven;t spent much time with CCM stuff since I sold Mine

What a Stonking build great materials and really let down by crap cheap wiring and that ECU ??

Loads of Info in here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jil77ygks...P_BtSY_La?dl=0

Sadly Tapaschite took over the old forum, but loads of good info in there

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/ccm_mad/

Check this out Tarka If you haven;t found what you need I have a number for Monty who is the expert on these bikes especially 604 Rotax

644 No Spark Due to Hidden Loom Resistor
Written by BOM & Jacko
The Problem
The original symptom was that the bike would not start as there was no spark at the plugs. All
feeds to the CDI were present and correct, the side stand relay had been removed from the
equation and a replacement coil was tried to eliminate that from the investigations.
The Investigation
The harness loom tape was stripped back starting at the CDI unit under the seat until just
where the starter relay wiring splits off from the loom. There hidden in the negative return
junction was a resistor (Diag 1) near where 4 more earths join the loom. The resistor in this
case was severed with rusty terminals and found to be in the black earth return connection
from the ignition side of the CDI.

26-03-21,09:14

Thanks DrFarkoff, but it's not that the bike isn't sparking.
It's totally dead...nada, nothing.
Not helped by this weird situation where there's a black wire come adrift which I'd swear was with another black on the connector block, but the adrift one is carrying a switched battery feed, yet the other one shows continuity to battery negative and frame.
That's the main puzzle...where the hell does it go?
Tommac's info contains some circuit diagrams which unfortunately aren't the same as Pete's but I'm hoping to be able to make comparisons and use a process of elimination, rather than fry something by just guessing.
Thanks anyway...that info might come useful with any other issues that develop.

26-03-21,09:49

I will drop Monty a line for you Steve

He may well have come across it before

26-03-21,10:00

Quote Originally Posted by DrFarkoff View Post

I will drop Monty a line for you Steve

He may well have come across it before

Much appreciated.

The bike was totally dead when Pete switched it on some time ago, and he hasn't meddled with it.
This black wire came adrift while testing the ignition switch.

If necessary I can WhatsApp pictures when I'm there next.

I've spent a while looking at the CCM forum, but nothing shows all of the four wire connections from the switch to the loom connector block.

26-03-21,10:11

That dropbox Link has a 604 folder

Linky

Ignition switch wiring pre 2000 LINKY

26-03-21,10:25

Quote Originally Posted by DrFarkoff View Post

That dropbox Link has a 604 folder

Linky

Ignition switch wiring pre 2000 LINKY

Thanks again.
The first one shows a six wire switch, Pete's is four wire.
The second one is blocked, somehow.

However, there's a wire coming off the ON pair on the six wire switch which isn't going to the loom connector.
I'm wondering if this might be Pete's adrift one...and maybe it goes to that ignition relay mounted behind the headlamp, which the CCM site says switches all the electrics on.
Something to check next time.

29-03-21,06:06

Well, I've got Pete's CCM sorted, thanks to the circuit diagrams and info received from Tommac and DrFarkoff.

The loose black was indeed one of a bunched set of earths, and the mystery of the broken one testing positive was because I was reading the return path of the speedo lamp.

The fault traced out to be the "ignition relay" not energizing because it's coil is failed, open circuit.
This relay is energised from the ignition switch and when it energises, it switches on all the bike's circuits (bit daft, really).
I linked out its switched contacts and everything came on and worked as it should.

So, all Pete needs is a new ignition relay...I might have one in my garage, but I've found and ordered a couple anyway.

Thanks a million for your help, fellas.

29-03-21,08:46

Quote Originally Posted by Tarka View Post

Thanks a million for your help, fellas.

SO all you needed was a proper electrician

04-04-21,10:43

Got the replacement relay.

Well, got three...Haines Racing wanted �10 for one....Halfords wanted �7 odd for one.
It's just a 20a four pin "micro relay".
Got three for �8 off an auto elec wholesale place on ebay.

One to fit, and one spare on this CCM 604 and one for spare on the CCM644 that Pete's also got.

Fitted one to the defunct 604 and it sprang into life...all circuits now functioning.
Taped a spare to the bundle of spaghetti behind the headlamp in case he has similar trouble while out alone.

Cheers again for the help.

04-04-21,11:01

Did you have a shot on the 644?

I wish I'd kept it but No space and trying to clear out 20 plus years of working in the wee garage meant it sitting outside

Brilliant Suspension and nice engine

04-04-21,13:07

Quote Originally Posted by DrFarkoff View Post

Did you have a shot on the 644?

I wish I'd kept it but No space and trying to clear out 20 plus years of working in the wee garage meant it sitting outside

Brilliant Suspension and nice engine

I have ridden Pete's 644, but only within his private grounds.
It did seem a superb bike, for that kind of thing, but I actually preferred the anvil like simplicity and brutality of the Rotax 604.
I do like the Rotax 4 stroke singles.
Looking forwards to rebuilding my Aprilia Tuareg with the Rotax 562 in it.

Is There Continuity Between Two Posts on a Ignition Coil Rotax

Thread: CCM Rotax 604 wiring info sought

CCM Rotax 604 wiring info sought

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